This episode, Tom and Holly are joined by Tommy Fulmer, CFO at Anders Group, to talk about what it takes to build financial resilience and stronger teams in uncertain times.
In this episode, Tom and Holly sit down with Tommy Fulmer, CFO of Anders Group, to discuss his journey to the CFO role, his strategies for managing liquidity, and the impact of COVID-19 on healthcare staffing. Tommy also discusses the importance of understanding every aspect of the business, from analytics to people management and he shares about the impact of transparent communication in leadership.
Tommy:
“ I think the biggest thing to me is I think everybody has to have that one thing they measure. And that it doesn't necessarily answer everything, but you can track it, because there's so much data out there, so many things to measure…I know I heard on an earlier podcast here about no data is better than bad data. And I agree with that completely. We have got to make sure we're measuring the right things, and then that you can take the data and look at it a different way.”
Links & Resources:
[00:00:00] Intro: Cash is king. Smart. Very smart. Good business. So, show me the money.
[00:00:09] Tom Gavaghan: Welcome to Liquid: How CFOs Outperform. I'm your host, Tom Gavaghan.
[00:00:13] Holly McNulty: And I'm Holly McNulty.
[00:00:15] Tom Gavaghan: And today we are joined by a special guest, Tommy Fulmer, who's CFO of Anders Group. Hey, Tommy.
[00:00:20] Tommy Fulmer: Hey, thanks so much for having me, guys. I appreciate it. I'm excited to get a chat a little bit here.
[00:00:25] Tom Gavaghan: Now, thank you so much. We're really looking forward to it. Um, and I kind of want to just jump in and start, uh, with a couple of questions before we kind of get into some of the meat of the conversation, one of the things, Tommy, I think was interesting is, is your route to the CFO and part of our conversation here today.
Is going to be about that journey. But one of the things I wanted to know is like what you're currently doing, what's taking up your time today, mostly in, uh, in your focus for you and perhaps your team as well.
[00:00:49] Tommy Fulmer: Yeah. I, you know, I think the biggest thing and kind of going along with the podcast, right, it is liquidity and really specifically kind of our accounts receivable.
We're really kind of focused, right. Making sure we know our customers, right. When they'll pay, if they're not able to write, how we can kind of work that out to make sure it's a good resolution for both. Both sides. Um, so that's really kind of the big focus. I'd say the other thing though, you know, from, you know, that's from a CFO side.
The other thing is just people in general. I think, you know, now with some of the uncertain times and things like that, it's really easy to kind of get caught in spreadsheets, different numbers and things like that, but I think we always got to take a step back, think about the people, right, and make sure that we're taking care of them.
Cause I really think if you take care of the people, right, they're going to take care of you. And so that's really the important thing, I think, from that side.
[00:01:33] Tom Gavaghan: I like that, Tommy. I wanted to ask on the receivable side real quick. Is it more about forecasting and planning for the receivables and its impact, or is it also part of it just the collection?
[00:01:41] Tommy Fulmer: I think the major thing is collections, right? So we work a lot with hospitals, you know, that definitely their situation has changed as COVID, you know, COVID funds have gone away. Um, and they're, right, they're doing a lot of work on their end. So it's one of those, really, I think that's our big focus. You know, I mean, it can be as simple as making sure people have invoices, right, and tracking those things. But it's really about being ahead of situations.
[00:02:03] Holly McNulty: You've been in the CFO seat for a year now. What's something you learned one way that now maybe you do differently?
[00:02:11] Tommy Fulmer: Yeah, I, you know, I think the big thing is I was so caught on cost and, you know, any, any vendor, anything that came out was really trying to negotiate that long term contract, right, to get a discount from there, and I think what we're seeing now is technology's changing, right, situations are changing all the time, and so I find myself spending more time really making sure the product is something we need, um, Uh, you know, and knowing kind of how it's going to play out the next year, two years, three years, because I think a lot of times we'll commit to something and situation changes six months down the road, right?
But you're, you're locked into a contract, right? And so you want to make sure it works for both sides. Um, but I think that's a big thing before it was always about, okay, how can we lower costs, right? All of that. And now it's really about, Let's focus on the top line too. Let's make sure our vendors who we're working with is going to help us go achieve and grow.
Um, and that's really kind of the big change that I feel like I've seen recently.
[00:03:05] Tom Gavaghan: And it's a great point, and actually, I think it's a good segue to the next section, Tommy, where I really kind of want to dig into that, uh, those changes in the dynamic aspect, I guess, of what you're doing and facing day to day.
As finance leaders, there's a lot of moving parts in what we do day to day. We're always in a position to outgrow, outperform, outlast the competition. So, In this segment, we like to call this the Chief Outperformance Officer, um, and kind of dig in a little bit to those elements of, of how we actually do outperform and kind of stay ahead of, of what's going on in our market.
So, Tommy, when you and I connected, you and I, I think, entered the, the job market in the early days. They're around the same time, right? And we're immediately impacted and hit in the great recession of 2008. And, and, and if, you know, it was interesting kind of getting into that, uh, having that as kind of your first experience and especially in finance as well, kind of understanding as well, actually what was going on.
But I think in that, um, it probably shaped some of the way that you kind of go into, uh, volatile times. So I'd be interested to know how has that impacted you and how you're managing liquidity now from a CF as a CFO, right. And current state of the volatility we face today, and probably for, you know, the foreseeable future here.
[00:04:18] Tommy Fulmer: Yeah, no, for sure. I mean, you know, starting kind of in 2008 and seeing the, the, the great recession there, right. Immediately. You know, six months into my, my experience, uh, I mean, we were holding, uh, compensation for a few people, right? We were having really strong liquidity issues from there, and it was one of those that kind of opened my eyes.
I didn't know, you know, six months in, is this normal, you know, from there? And I think what that did is, one, kind of taught me the responsibility, right? I mean, we work with people, I know I've said that before. Right. But we have an obligation, right. To take care of people and make sure that yes, the company is set up, but these are individuals as well, and that everybody's in a position to be successful as we move on.
I think from a forecasting standpoint, I think what it's done is, you know, you can't just have one scenario. I think you've got to have a, right. Here's a top best case scenario. Here's what we think, right. Here's. Maybe a worst case and then, and then even a couple in between. And I think that's been the big thing for me is we can't assume anything, right?
We need to be ready to handle everything, you know, from there, you know, and it's probably made some of my models a little more conservative, right? I'm a little bit more concerned cause I want to make sure that, you know, we're not running into a situation down the line. Um, but I feel like that's one of the biggest things is you gotta, you gotta plan for multiple things to hit, um, and to happen and be ready.
[00:05:37] Tom Gavaghan: From a, from a scenario perspective, is it, do you have, are you in a situation where you feel like it's just like multiple scenarios now that you really have to think of where at the time it was like, You know, counterparty risk and the aspect of that. And then over the years now you kind of have, well, interest rate volatility and geopolitical activity that could be impacting things, tax law changes that could be a result of political party changes and things like that.
Like, do you feel like there's like almost like an ongoing scenario, A, B, C, D now, as opposed to just having A and B, best case, worst case?
[00:06:06] Tommy Fulmer: I think completely, right? So we're in the healthcare staffing space and in that there are multiple segments and it's been, you know, interesting, right? Especially with COVID, certain segments took off while other segments, right, kind of came in, right?
As not as many elective surgeries. So the locum side really saw a reduction. Well, nurse demand kind of skyrocketed a bit. And I think what you're seeing is it is all over the place. Um, you know, some of those, Hey, we're going to see steady growth over time and play to that. I mean, that's just not the case anymore.
And so I think you've got to be ready to pivot a little bit. And also, you know, from, from our side, right, we're healthcare stuff that we want to help people. I, it's one of those things that I really want to work at a place that I feel good about. And I mean, we're, you know, healthcare workers, obviously we're huge, right?
The last four years, obviously before that, but really stepped up. You know, during times of COVID, and I think it's one of those that we feel good about what we're doing, and so if we can kind of help not only, you know, both the clients and the hospitals and the different groups, but as well as our travelers, right, put them in a good position that they can go make an impact on a community. I think that's a, that's a big thing for us as well.
[00:07:11] Holly McNulty: Yeah. Tommy, your line of business was seriously impacted by the global pandemic in 2020, and it's still having lasting implications, um, on your organization. How do you. Find yourself managing, and how is your team managing, planning, and optimizing your liquidity at this point?
[00:07:32] Tommy Fulmer: Yeah, I think the big thing is, like, one is we need the data, and then we have to be consistent. So I think that's the biggest thing is, you know, for us, right, a lot of the, you know, The liquidity management, as I said, is on our AR and collections. And so we've got a process every week, we're running a report.
We're kind of bracketing the different groups. You know, one would be right, the group over 60 days, right. From there to make sure that we have answers there. Then we kind of pick a level threshold of our size of customers. Right. So maybe our top. 20 customers to make sure we know where they sit. And then the other one is just, uh, people, right.
That haven't made a payment yet. And cause a lot of it is, you know, also process, you know, a lot of our, you know, customers, people we work with, they're seeing changes in personnel and things like that. So half the battle is making sure people have invoices, right. It seems really, really basic. But I think it's a huge thing.
And once you know that you have those processes in, I think we try to measure things really consistently. Every week we're looking at the same thing, um, basically. So then that way we can see any trends that change and things like that. But I think that's our big focus is we have a group that's going after the individual stuff.
But we also, you know, don't want to get caught in the weeds too much. We want to take a step back, segment our, our, our, our different, uh, areas, and then make sure that we're addressing those. And then I'd say the other thing is it's important to have a good balance sheet, right. And, and as far as right to be able to get the cash, right, whether it's Whether the industry is growing or it's shrinking, right, either way it's important, right?
You want to be able to take advantage of situations and be able to provide services, you know, when things take off and that usually takes cash, you know, for us, right, we, we will, from a healthcare staffing standpoint, right, we'll, we hire the employees and we put, you know, we make sure that they're paid right in a, in, you know, a weekly manner, right?
And then it's about, you know, the facilities have a little bit more time from there. So we want to make sure we can put as many people to work. That's another big thing is just watching the balance sheet, making sure that we're in a strong position. And I've been fortunate, right, to join a company that understood that, right, and make sure that you have to reinvest in the business. And I think that's been a good thing and made us successful to this point.
[00:09:41] Holly McNulty: Yeah, that's really great. So aspiring analysts. Um, and our audience often look up to CFOs as role models in their career. So could you share one key piece of advice for these analysts who aim to eventually reach like that CFO position?
[00:09:59] Tommy Fulmer: I think, uh, you know, I mean, for my history, right, it took me a long time. I've held, you know, a bunch of different roles from there. And I, I think the biggest thing is, is you have to learn everything now. You don't have to be able to do every single thing, but you have to be able to talk about it. You have to be able to, you know, understand it.
You're going to be making decisions on it. And I really think that's the biggest thing. You know, I think the one, you know, key that I, yeah, pride myself on a little bit is I feel like I can see something and. I can tell if it's wrong right now. I may not have the answer right. And I need help from there, but I think you need, need to be able to see something and go, okay, there's something wrong there.
We need to go investigate it. Right. Get people from there, you know? And the other thing is, I feel like is, um, you know, it takes time, right. And that learning and you got to raise your hand. Because a lot of analysts I know, like that I've worked with, and I'm probably just as guilty of this as anybody is, you know, I went, you know, two years, I thought I had it all figured out, right?
I'm going, man, what is our, you know, CEO, CFO, I've got it all figured out. And I think it's important to realize you can think that, right? You can think that and have your ideas and go there, but really listen to people around you, right? And take the time. People love to mentor others, right? I was really lucky.
I had a mentor. They were willing to share information with me. And I just think that's a huge thing. It may take a little bit longer than you need. I mean, continue to work on that because when you get your CFO, you're going to want to make decisions across the entire company and you can't always just have, you know, accounting lenses.
And I, I'm learning that a lot from a sales side. And really, if you just use the accounting lenses, you know, sometimes that can limit you. And so I think it's easy for me to put together a projection and be like, Hey, we can't hit this. But I've worked with CEO, you know, CEOs, owners in the past who were like, no, we're going to hit this number.
And it's amazing what you can end up doing, you know, from there. So I think just learning from everybody is the biggest thing.
[00:11:47] Tom Gavaghan: I really respect that. I think people like yourself and myself, you know, having that mentorship is, uh, you're, you're very fortunate to have that. It's such a part of the evolution.
And I also echo, you know, the patience and the learning is so key and also. The continuous learning too. I mean, I would probably venture to say, Tommy, you're still, you've reached the pinnacle, right? But you're still learning, I would assume, right? Every day.
[00:12:07] Tommy Fulmer: Every day.
[00:12:08] Tom Gavaghan: Yeah. And also getting it in the different angles as well.
This is something we hear so often, I think, in these conversations. There's always different paths, but it's the people who in or in your seat that have worked in, uh, various parts of the, of the finance function, right? They've worked in accounting, they've worked in fp and a, they've come through treasury and so on.
And having that per like that, that overview is so important. Otherwise you're just going about it through a purely accounting lens, which we know doesn't work. Or through, purely through an fp a lens, which also doesn't work. It's a blending, which is, um, which is so critical. But I think that actually Tommy now will probably wanna kind of dig in a little bit more and maybe get a little bit.
Uncomfortable in a way because this is our secrets segment. We've all have secrets, but today, uh, we're hearing it straight from, from, from you. So one of the things I wanted to, to, to ascertain from you is, um, is what's your best kept secret for staying ahead of the, uh, of the curve when everything like we've been talking about is just constantly evolving and changing like daily.
[00:13:04] Tommy Fulmer: I think the biggest thing to me is, I think everybody has to have that one thing they measure, right, and that it doesn't necessarily answer everything, but you can track it and know if something's going on and that you need to dive in somewhere else. You know, for us in our business, right, it's, it's dollars bucked.
So we look at, right, how many each week. How many dollars we're booking. Ideally, if that's over what we're billing right now, we know we're growing. Um, you know, but it's one of those that are our cycle, our sales cycle short enough that I think we can do that. Sometimes you may need to move back to a different, you know, KPI or measurement, but it's something that I just put together for myself.
I mean, I'll be honest. I'm the one that puts it, you know, I kind of run the reports. I look at it and each week. You know, to know that, hey, one week can be, you know, that may be all right, but if we're seeing multiple weeks there, we know we need to dive in. And then I think the big thing is, at that point, we've got to get more people involved, right?
I mean, different parts of the organization, right? All the way down, you know, you know, to the, Especially our sales, you know, individuals, right. That are on the ground that are seeing what's going on. And so for me, it really is, you got to have that one thing. Cause there's so much data out there, so many things to measure.
And I think, I think one failure may has been, you know, I'll throw data at a bunch of people and be like, Hey, you know, didn't you know that? And they're like, I mean, they couldn't digest that. And I couldn't either. And so I think really to kind of hone in on, you know, I like the one metric, but then I've got a few more, um, just to make sure that, to know when you got to step in and do something.
[00:14:31] Tom Gavaghan: You're saying setting like a compass to a specific kind of KPI or metric is, is really the kind of, I guess, that, that, that, um, guiding light that you, you have in terms of that. Is that been different in your experiences in different leadership roles? Is that vary based on like the company? I mean, you kind of spend the same time in the same industry basically, but is that vary based on the times you're in and the company you're in, perhaps the industry you're in?
[00:14:54] Tommy Fulmer: I think it does. So I really like it in kind of the lines where there is some reoccurring business so that you can kind of, you know, keep from there. You know, we've gotten more granular. I feel like in some staffing, you know, a little more direct staffing, you're starting to maybe measure more job orders and different things like that to really understand the market and to know where you're taking account.
But then I will say the other thing is you still got to measure everything else. And I think you have to have a specific cadence that you go back and review those things, right? Because that's, you know, where I'll tell you a lot about, you know, things you just, I feel like, you know, whether it's once a month or whatever works for you to kind of look at all the data, right?
But you got to have that one thing I feel like to know. What's going on?
[00:15:34] Tom Gavaghan: That one last question on that, because you said the data word a couple of times, and that's also something we oftentimes talk about in these settings, right? Is it's all reliant on the data and the data is, uh, you're measuring that based on the accessibility of it, the accuracy of it.
Do you have secrets there that have worked for you to get timely, accurate information of the, to get access to the underlying data, to get to that, to that guiding light, to that, to that key KPI or metric that you're ultimately measuring daily, weekly, monthly.
[00:16:02] Tommy Fulmer: It's something that I'm still working on right now, as far as, right. Cause we, you know, in this day and age, you can capture so much. Um, but I think the important thing there is, you know, if you have, um, you know, a leadership team, right, or you got to bring everybody in, um, you know, and really kind of work, you know, towards what makes sense to measure. Make sure you understand, right.
I know, I know I heard on an earlier podcast here, right. About no data is better than bad data. And I agree with that completely. Right. I mean, it is, it is one, we got to make sure we're measuring the right things. And then that you can take the data and look at it a different way. A lot of times I've failed of, you know, it's like, Hey, we'll look at one thing one week.
And then we don't look at it the next week and then we'll come back to it. I think having something, it's gotta be easy. Because if you've got to go and do a bunch of work to get it, I think. People get tired, you know, from there. That's why I think it's, it is important to have a good reporting system.
[00:16:54] Holly McNulty: Do you have an unconventional strategy or tactic that you found most effective for your organization's financial success?
[00:17:03] Tommy Fulmer: You know, the one, and I'm not, I'm not sure how, right, uh, I don't know how unique it is, but I think the companies I've been in, we've been very transparent with, with numbers and financials and really trying to share that with our employees. Um, I think it's one of those, right, we don't want people, you know, we, we want to be clear.
We want people to know, and I think. It's that, and really trying to set up, right, a situation that everybody. I think, um, you know, we're, the, the companies I've been at have been really, you know, a lot of sales, right? Our sales team is always very, very important. And I think for us, I really want to equip our sales, um, our sales reps, right.
To know how to run a business. And I think them understanding financials is important because essentially they're the CEO of their own desk. I mean, that's, we want them making decisions. We want them to be empowered. And I feel like when they're empowered, Right? They're going to help us. They're going to be able to take care of people from there.
And so I really feel like you got to be transparent because it's easy to throw around the word trust. And I think that's the key. That's what you're ultimately trying to get, and it's so easy to lose, uh, from there, but I think if you're open with people, they understand why you're making decisions. I just think it goes a long way, and you can really get loyalty inside a company.
[00:18:16] Tom Gavaghan: In good times and in bad, and I think you struck another chord there, right? It's always important that the people around understand why, right, that we're doing something, not just what we're doing. It's an integral piece, I think, to any organization's success, for sure. In your career journey, I'm going to assume that you've had some Stumbling blocks, right?
Some setbacks, perhaps, right? How have you navigated times like that in your career? What secrets do you have for anybody that's, you know, perhaps had a setback here?
[00:18:41] Tommy Fulmer: First thing I'd say, you have to take a breath, right? It is easy when something happens, right, to immediately react emotionally. And nine times out of the ten, there's, you don't have all the information.
You're probably making the wrong decision. So I'd say first, take a breath, right? Now that depends on how much time you have. Um, but then for me, right, it is, and I'll go back to data. Yeah. And making sure that you have as much information about the situation as you can, I think involving other people. We all think we know everything.
Definitely got to get the full team members, get everybody involved in a situation and I think get together. Then make a decision and then react, right? The worst thing I think you can do, and it's easy to do, is to just not make a change, not make a decision, and slowly, you know, just kind of kind of get smaller and smaller.
And I think that's right with the industry and stuff like that. You know, it's 1 of those that. It's kind of one of the big things I, you know, mindset changes I had recently, right? It's less on cost and more on how do we grow? It's kind of one of the big things for me is, is, it's focusing on growth and what that, you know, get the right people in play.
[00:19:46] Tom Gavaghan: It is striking such a balance, I think, yeah, Tommy, I think you hit the nail on the head on that one, um, as well. You know, I think we haven't, um, done a good job here of actually, why don't you help explain a little bit more about, about Anders Group and about what you guys actually are doing and, and, um, and currently and, um, the market you serve.
[00:20:05] Tommy Fulmer: Yeah, no, that's great. Yeah. So, so work for Anders Group. So, we're a healthcare staffing company. Uh, we focus primarily on allied and travel nursing. So, typically, right, a nurse or a, an allied professional will go work at a facility for typically 13 weeks. Um, so they, you know, they will typically travel all around the country, you know, some stay local, but it's kind of serving, you know, across the entire country.
And I think this is one that, you know, Um, you know, it's great. It's something that I feel really good about. I think it's important to work for somebody you can feel good about, and I think, you know, we'll work a lot in rural areas, right, and some, you know, some bigger cities as well, but I think it's, we're able to connect people and help communities, and I think that's one of the biggest things.
Um, I was lucky to join a year ago. You know, they were very successful. They've consistently been on the SIA top, um, largest staffing companies, a lot of the Dallas 100 list. And then a cool thing was, uh, they were voted number two, uh, nurse staffing company by Blue Pipes, which I think was a great, you know, obviously a great honor.
And I think the cool thing with that is it was a lot driven by, um, you know, reviews as well as, you know, how we, you know, our customer service and some of the, you know, The things that I think are important from a business that, you know, goes across any business you can learn from. I think for us, you know, one of our biggest things, I mean, it's about relationships and that's one of the differentiators we can make.
And so we need to make, you know, connections with people and really, cause we're asking somebody to go to a different place from where they live and, you know, go to this new area. They may not know people. And so. Um, ideally we're providing them a great experience, right, and they're obviously doing something great in the community.
So it's, it's one of those, I'm really fortunate, I really like what we do, um, what I get to do and what I get to be a, you know, a small part of is really nice.
[00:21:53] Tom Gavaghan: So Tommy, um, so when you're talking about the customers, just so I'm clear, like, are those hospitals, clinics, things like that, or other types of facilities that you're also servicing from a customer perspective?
[00:22:04] Tommy Fulmer: Yeah, so primarily we're doing hospitals, uh, clinics, um, and, and different things like that. So it's typically, it's kind of all healthcare, um, we're really involved in. Um, so it's not just, you know, limited, um, limited to one section.
[00:22:18] Tom Gavaghan: Now, such an important function. Is there a supply demand element there in terms of what you guys do and its impact liquidity that you're managing in terms of like, because it's, it's not a, you're not producing product, right?
You have no inventory. Um, is there, is that. Change based on the market and the job force, I guess.
[00:22:36] Tommy Fulmer: Yeah, so there is, right? And it's an industry, right, especially on the nursing side that's gone through a lot over the last, you know, three, four years as nurses, right? They work very hard. A lot of them are facing burnout and other things and looking to get out of the industry.
And so, I think it has put a little bit of a, a impact on the supply side. And then, you know, from a demand side with the hospitals, right, they're needing to make the right decisions for them from a staffing standpoint. And so, during COVID, right, where nurse staffing, right, everybody needed nurses, it was a really big part of what was going on.
It's one of those that now, you know, now it is a little bit different. There is a little bit less supply. Um, and then from the bill side, you know, and there, hospitals also, right, got a little bit more limited funding. So there's a little bit of a pinch there, you know, from that side.
[00:23:24] Tom Gavaghan: Such an important job that they do function, that they serve.
Sometimes it's so, it's, there's such a, sometimes it can be a thankless job, but, um, but it is so important. And then obviously what you guys do to keep these places running effectively, um, is, is, is, uh, is, is really important. I guess, Tommy, then I guess I'll ask one last question for those that do need nurses sometimes would be wrestlers and I've come to learn, I guess, that you, you do some wrestling of some sort, professionally, amateur level, help, help me understand what you're doing there, man.
[00:23:54] Tommy Fulmer: Uh, I mean, I think it's called a midlife crisis. I believe it's a midlife crisis is what it is, but now I saw, I do. Independent professional wrestling. So really it was one of those, uh, you know, it actually started with a contest at work, um, with my accounting team. We wanted to identify and improve processes, uh, try to get some innovation in, and so we've created a contest and it wasn't about solving processes, but we basically did something where everybody would write on the wall a process that could be improved, right?
We didn't even want solutions yet. And we did kind of a raffle thing, and then that culminated with a pedicures and pro wrestling weekend. So, we went on Friday, and we got pedicures as a team. And then Saturday night, uh, we found a local pro wrestling, you know, federation. We went there, it was two hours, you know, it was, you know, BYOB, really just kind of fun theater.
You know, cheer the good guys, boo the bad guys. Uh, and it was one of those, we had a blast. And so, my birthday was around that time, and my wife You know, knew I liked wrestling growing up. I don't know if I should admit to that, but you know, I watched pro wrestling growing up and so she messaged them like, Hey, I'd like to get them three training sessions and the email back said, Nope, it's a six month commitment.
You got to work security every Saturday night, right? We train, you know, from six to 10, you know, two days a week and all this. Well, then instead of surprising me, she's like, well, you know, what do you think? And I'm like, well, this is a challenge now I got to do it. And so. Six months turned into 14 months of training and working from there.
Uh, I think it's probably my wife's biggest regret in her life was letting me do it. Um, but you know, 14 months later, um, you know, I'm on the turnbuckle getting thrown through a table. And it's one of those that like, it's great. Like it's when I didn't do theater growing up, I wish I did. Um, but the kind of combination between the theater, the physical stuff, um, you know, and the people I've gotten to meet, it's been, it's been awesome.
So it's kind of a. It's a fun thing to talk about as well. Um, you know, I am, I feel like older than everybody else that's doing it, but, uh, it's, it's something I really look forward to and have a lot of fun with.
[00:25:58] Tom Gavaghan: It's, uh, it's actually quite incredible. Yeah, it is. It's, uh, and it's unique. I don't think we've, we've had a number of guests on here.
We talk about hobbies and things like that. I don't think we're going to have any other wrestlers quite, quite honestly. I think you might be alone in that, in that one, but, uh, but, uh, it's, it's actually a good story too, right? About the, the team building that kind of led to it. And, uh, and all of a sudden now, boom, you have a new hobby.
Yeah. Uh, which is pretty cool. Very, very cool. Tommy, thank you so much for taking the time and talking to us here today. Anything else you want to share with the audience? How they can keep up with you? What you're doing at Anders? Anything else that you want to plug here? We're
[00:26:30] Tommy Fulmer: at AndersGroup. org, right? We work with different facilities across the whole country, right?
It's something that we Very much pride ourself in a relationship, you know, from there. Um, yeah, social media, I won't go into all the wrestling stuff. So I'll try to stay away from that. No, I, I, I appreciate the chance to come on, right. Talk with you guys. I think this is definitely important stuff, you know, to talk about.
I've really enjoyed some of the previous podcasts and learning, you know, from there. So thank you both for the opportunity to come on here.
[00:27:01] Tom Gavaghan: Thank you, Stamni, uh, for taking the time and meeting with us today. I thought that was a really fun conversation, especially the latter part and the wrestling, which maybe we can talk a little bit more about there. But I appreciate the callback as well to, uh, to the prior podcasts, right? And this, the episodes we've had and the conversations we've had.
The one thing, one of the things that stuck out to me was that he echoed the, the no data is better than bad data, which I would agree with, um, as well, because obviously it's, It's leading you to bad decisions, uh, taking you in bad directions and such, so, uh, it's an important part. I just keep hearing that in all these different conversations that we've been having about the importance and accessibility of data to do what the CFO has to do day in and day out.
And each one is different, and he's really unique in what they do at Anders. Like, we were talking about, they're not producing products, right? They're staffing and placing really important jobs where they need to be to help communities. Um, and that's gotta be such a challenge, just trying to identify and make sure they have the right supply, which is the, the, the nursing.
And then also managing the other end of their cash conversion, which would be the, the demand that they have at the, um, within their hospitals network. He also just seemed like a really great manager, a really good leader from what I gather, just his perspective and background there. And I'm sure if that resonated with you, Holly, or if you heard the same things I heard there, but just seemed like a really great guy to probably work for, um, and maybe go to a wrestling match with as well.
But what did you hear from him?
[00:28:28] Holly McNulty: Yeah, I completely agree with you, Tom, on both of those points, especially like the The type of leader that he appears to be, um, he brought up a couple things that I, I thought really spoke to that. And the first is, you know, being in the role of a CFO, you have to be able to know not just the finance or an accounting side of things, but you have to have your hand in like everything so that you can really understand the business, that you can, you know, really lead your teams and, and do an effective job.
The other thing that really stuck out to me that. Just, you know, shows his, uh, strengths as a leader is the fact that he, he likes to have that full transparency with his team, um, making sure that they are aware of everything that's going on and not just what's going on, but why it's happening so that they can be you.
More empowered to make better decisions on their own and, you know, have that trust in him and in the company itself.
[00:29:29] Tom Gavaghan: You know, I'm a big believer in that. Unfortunately, sometimes you just see that just so overlooked and how teams are function sometimes, but I think the best teams and the strongest leaders are those that are transparent.
Like we said, good time or bad, right? This is an adult to adult relationship at the end of the day, and transparency is key, right? And to understand where you're going, why you're doing what we're doing is so incredibly important. Um, what is not as important as, as why, as you know, as that's a big, uh, A big important mantra on our end as well here at what we do at Kariba.
So I think it was a really good conversation. I look forward to maybe having him back on and going a little bit into other topics that we can go into with him and having him back. So thank you again, Tommy. And thanks everybody for tuning in. Please subscribe to wherever you get your podcasts from. I'm Tom Gavaghan.
[00:30:17] Holly McNulty: And I'm Holly McNulty.
[00:30:19] Tom Gavaghan: And this is Liquid: How CFOs Outperform.